StrenuousSpider

Jun 23 2018, 09:00 PM

You are just saying anyone who is not connected to goku or vegeta are irreverent. Id say for the most part in the ToP roshi, krillian, 18, gohan, tein, piccolo had vary little to do witu goku and vegeta yet had plenty of time to shine and all played there parts with only 1 of them being god teir.

Cabba dose not need to be stronger then everyone in Z for vegeta to recognize his power. Hell you could have cabba at cell teir in base and hes still stronger then any U7 sayain until goku and vegeta come along towards EoZ. So that is a completely meaningless argument say that he had to be that strong to be trained by vegeta.

Guess what anyone outside of Hit in U6 was a useless fight for goku and vegeta. And no the next people dont have to be stronger this has been proven here and there throughout the series. So that narrative you talk about is just a load of s***.

Thiln

Jun 24 2018, 08:46 PM

I don't believe Kefla is going to have what it takes to defeat Jiren, Ultra Instinct or not. My estimates for her power tend to lean more on the conservative end of things than others. In my eyes, she's still trapped within that inexorable chasm between SSJBKKx20 Goku/SSJBE Vegeta/Hakaishin Toppo and the actual Hakaishin deities. Jiren was already inherently more powerful than the Hakaishin. By equipping him with Ultra Instinct, you're elevating his power to greatly superior heights. I'm not even sure the angels could defeat him, at least in one on one arranged fights. Daishinkan and collective efforts may still prove more than adequate in handling him.

1. Beerus vs SSBE Vegeta(post-rage boost): Vegeta couldn't handle SSJ Kefla, in my opinion; let alone Beerus or any of the Hakaishin outside of Sidra potentially.

2. Tenshinhan vs Kururin (Buu Arc): Such a debate has been perpetually hounded again and again and again and again without truly ending. My personal assessment is that the conditions and feats seem to point towards Tien, but Toriyama has already given his input on who the strongest "earthling" is. Still, it doesn't mean they couldn't be close in power or that Tien wouldn't be able to win using his Shin Kikoho.

3. SSJ2 Vegeta Buu Arc vs SSJ2 Gohan Cell Games: My interpretation of certain characters in this arrangement is that early Vegeta from the Buu arc, prior to the Majin enhancement, was comparable to Kid Gohan from the Cell Games. I believe a fight between the two of them would be evenly matched. It could go either way. Some might jump to the conclusion that Vegeta would win because he's more "experienced" or because of his "skills". Me? I think the manga has a habit of telling moreso than showing these alleged traits (just like with so many other things, really). No, conflating neanderthaloid strength with shrewdness or dexterity doesn't work. Vegeta's only tangible advantages in this fight would be greater mass, which could prove advantageous since the power levels are close enough, and a few additional minor techniques like the Kienzan and kiais that could conceivably shift the momentum of the fight in his favour. Fortunately for him, Gohan doesn't have a diverse repertoire of abilities either. It might be the difference between victory and defeat here.

4. Base Cabba vs SSJ Goku(Baby Arc): Don't know a lot about GT. I think Cabba could win since he was fighting relatively well against an opponent, Vegeta, who in the last arc was successfully comparable to the fighter that was battling Freeza in his final form - keep in mind that Freeza in his first form had SSJ Gohan at his mercy (while still being superior to Piccolo in base at this time).

Thiln

Jun 24 2018, 08:46 PM

I don't believe Kefla is going to have what it takes to defeat Jiren, Ultra Instinct or not. My estimates for her power tend to lean more on the conservative end of things than others. In my eyes, she's still trapped within that inexorable chasm between SSJBKKx20 Goku/SSJBE Vegeta/Hakaishin Toppo and the actual Hakaishin deities. Jiren was already inherently more powerful than the Hakaishin. By equipping him with Ultra Instinct, you're elevating his power to greatly superior heights. I'm not even sure the angels could defeat him, at least in one on one arranged fights. Daishinkan and collective efforts may still prove more than adequate in handling him. <br /><br />1. Beerus vs SSBE Vegeta(post-rage boost): Vegeta couldn't handle SSJ Kefla, in my opinion; let alone Beerus or any of the Hakaishin outside of Sidra potentially. <br /> <br />2. Tenshinhan vs Kururin (Buu Arc): Such a debate has been perpetually hounded again and again and again and again without truly ending. My personal assessment is that the conditions and feats seem to point towards Tien, but Toriyama has already given his input on who the strongest "earthling" is. Still, it doesn't mean they couldn't be close in power or that Tien wouldn't be able to win using his Shin Kikoho. <br /><br />3. SSJ2 Vegeta Buu Arc vs SSJ2 Gohan Cell Games: My interpretation of certain characters in this arrangement is that early Vegeta from the Buu arc, prior to the Majin enhancement, was comparable to Kid Gohan from the Cell Games. I believe a fight between the two of them would be evenly matched. It could go either way. Some might jump to the conclusion that Vegeta would win because he's more "experienced" or because of his "skills". Me? I think the manga has a habit of telling moreso than showing these alleged traits (just like with so many other things, really). No, conflating neanderthaloid strength with shrewdness or dexterity doesn't work. Vegeta's only tangible advantages in this fight would be greater mass, which could prove advantageous since the power levels are close enough, and a few additional minor techniques like the Kienzan and kiais that could conceivably shift the momentum of the fight in his favour. Fortunately for him, Gohan doesn't have a diverse repertoire of abilities either. It might be the difference between victory and defeat here. <br /><br />4. Base Cabba vs SSJ Goku(Baby Arc): Don't know a lot about GT. I think Cabba could win since he was fighting relatively well against an opponent, Vegeta, who in the last arc was successfully comparable to the fighter that was battling Freeza in his final form - keep in mind that Freeza in his first form had SSJ Gohan at his mercy (while still being superior to Piccolo in base at this time).

Pyrus

Jun 24 2018, 10:54 PM

To put it somewhat into perspective, Base Goku in GT, by the time he fights Baby, is already stronger than Majin Boo. Whether that is Kid Boo or Gohan-Boo doesn't really matter because that's still massively strong. Add whatever your Super Saiyan boost is on top of that and you've got a monster of a fighter. Cabba in the manga isn't reaching that kind of power without his transformations. Anime Cabba probably could.